War of words over CMETB leases

The issue of leases and properties being used by the Cavan Monaghan Education and Training Board (CMETB) to maximum potential resulted in a clash at the May meeting of the board hosted online last week.

Monaghan Cllr P.J. O’Hanlon contended that certain properties were being under utilised in County Cavan, a claim that was roundly rejected by the chief executive John Kearney.

Cllr O’Hanlon referenced the transfer of the former army barracks in Cavan Town to the then Vocational Education Committee (VEC) in 2011 to deliver Further Education and Training (FET) programmes. He contended that to opt to use it as a training centre in 2015 was “not great business”. The property is set to be developed as an FET campus for use by Cavan Institute.

He contrasted this with the expensive lease of a properties elsewhere by the CMETB and asked were any other properties “lying idle” in Cavan.

“We have a lease on a property in Church View in Cavan until 2044, which is not fully utilised,” remarked Cllr O’Hanlon.

That lease was signed in November 2009. It has no break clause and concludes in 2044. The rental cost per annum totals €289,050 (inclusive of VAT), on a full repairing and insuring (FRI) lease.

Mr Kearney stressed to the meeting: “There are no under-utilised properties in Cavan at the moment. The property in Church View is fully utilised. I am not sure what the board can do about the length and term of the lease. In the interim, I am giving a full assurance to the Board that the properties are fully utilised.”

Going back to the Dún Uí Néill facility, Cllr O’Hanlon said the former barracks was “not purposely built for the function it is supposed to be doing”.

Lease extension on Ballinagh Road

In relation to a property on the Ballinagh Road, which is used by Cavan Institute, Linda Pinkster, director of CMETB FET, revealed that the lease is due to expire at the end of September this year.

“It houses the Motor Mechanic, Carpentry and Engineering Construction Studies programmes and we are seeking to extend that lease until such time as we have a permanent facility for Cavan Institute. If we were to re-locate elsewhere, there would be a large space requirement to house specialist equipment and the dust extraction system,” she outlined.

“We did look at the option of relocating to the FET Campus but the significant investment that would be required to make the buildings there fit for purpose, it would not make economic sense to progress that while we are awaiting a new build,” added Ms Pinkster.

Cllr O’Hanlon questioned that decision: “Was that [barracks] not a property bought by Cavan VEC for a College of Further Education? And if it was, here we are today approving the rent of a property on the Ballinagh Road. There is no word of the College of Further Education and where this FET training is now.”

He again stressed that the property was acquired as far back as 2011 for Further Education but accepted it was a legacy issue in relation to Cavan VEC.

Mr Kearney backed up Ms Pinkster and the need to extend the lease on the Ballinagh Road premises due to the lack of proper facilities, as yet, at the Dublin Road campus. He asked members to approve it.

The education chief said that plans are progressing for the delivery of “a fit for purpose FET College of the future” at Dún Uí Néill.

Referencing the “world class facilities” at Monaghan Institute, which were provided through the redevelopment of the former army barracks there, Mr Kearney said the CMETB is aspiring to deliver the same for Cavan.

Of the temporary extension of leases, he said: “It is a bridging gap until we get the delivery of proper facilities in the FET Campus.”

Undeterred, Cllr O’Hanlon said: “My views are well known in relation to the property in Church Street. I am putting it on the record that this [barracks] is a property that was bought 10 years ago and is now called a FET Campus. I would like to think, going forward with Cavan Monaghan ETB, that we would be putting purpose built buildings in place for the students out there.”

He continued: “I have no problem being on this board but, if I find this is going to be the way forward and that things are going to be steered in Cavan, and that Monaghan is not going to be getting its equal share in relation to these courses and fair play, I will have absolutely no problem walking!”

Mr Kearney again insisted there are no under-utilised properties in Cavan at present.

“The property at Church View is fully utilised and as you see from the schedule of activity put before you, certainly on an annual basis, properties are fully utilised.”

Crazy

Cllr O’Hanlon said, in relation to the Church View property, for Cavan VEC to sign up for a lease until 2044 was “absolutely crazy”.

Mr Kearney said he was unsure what, if anything, the CMETB could do about the terms of the lease.

Joining the debate, Joe McGrath said neither Cavan nor Monaghan have a training centre.

“In our sister counties – Louth/Meath there is a training centre in Dundalk. There is a deficit in terms of investment for the future. The ETB should be making a case for investment. We do need finance for capital projects,” he said.

Mr Kearney pointed out that other ETBs, except the city of Dublin, have only one training centre.

Getting back to the necessary approval for the lease extension on the Ballinagh Road, board chairman Sean Fegan said he required a proposer and a seconder with Mr McGrath and David Maxwell obliging him.

Apprenticeships in Cavan

Cllr O’Hanlon then queried the number of apprenticeship programmes being delivered in each county and was informed by Ms Pinkster that there are five based in Cavan and one in Monaghan.

“This is not acceptable – five courses in Cavan and one course in Monaghan. I don’t think that is fair play,” said Cllr O’Hanlon.

Mr Kearney responded: “SOLAS actually make the determination as to where the Electrical Apprenticeships programmes are being delivered.

“We are not hiding behind that particular decision either, because SOLAS also made the decision that the OEM Engineering was being delivered in Monaghan Institute.”

The chief executive said the board endeavours to achieve a balance between both counties. “There will be certain programmes run in Cavan and there will be other programmes run in Monaghan but we are trying to do it on an equal fair basis. Just picking out one element of programme delivery and overlooking that there are other programmes running in the other part of the region is perhaps a bit unfair,” he said.

Using the example of six apples and two people, Cllr O’Hanlon said: “If you were being fair, you would give three to each of them but, to give five to one and one to another, your response speaks for itself.”

Mr Kearney quipped: “You are forgetting P.J. that there are oranges being given out as well as apples in your analogy.”

Cllr O’Hanlon requested a full breakdown of apprenticeships and their location and also buildings and their uses for the next meeting.

All male board claim

Meanwhile, Cllr Sarah O’Reilly (Aontú) asked for it to be put on the record that there are no Cavan CMETB board members on the FET board. “Am I right in saying that – are they all men from Monaghan?” she asked.

Cllr O’Hanlon pointed out that the FET Board has only met once.

He added that the appointments were decided democratically at the last ETB meeting. “Not alone that, there are representatives from Cavan from business and different walks of life on the board,” said Cllr O’Hanlon.